Join us with Nevine Nass, CEO of Medical Screenings United, and Sandra Rivas, Consumer Engagement Manager at Humana, as we explore the latest wellness trends tailored for a diverse, multi-generational workforce. Learn how to foster a culture of well-being that resonates across all generations at work.
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Nevine Nass 00:00 Yeah, well that's she's fun. She's definitely fun.
Nicole Donnelly 00:05 Hello, we're live. Can you believe I there live? Flash if only we could be in person together. Oh my gosh, this is so fun. I have two fabulous ladies who are joining our lovely panel discussion today. We have the amazingly talented new Venus with medical screenings unlimited. And we also have Sandra Rivas, who is an amazing, amazing wellness wellness champion. She works for Humana and supports clients every day with making sure that they're, they're the companies have really solid wellness programs for their employees and help them stay engaged in their well being and health and all of those things. So we're gonna have an amazing conversation today talking all about the multi generational workforce, and the challenges that employers need to be thinking about when they're trying to address these specific needs of each of these generational multigenerational employees and how to navigate all of that. So Sandra, Nevine, welcome to the show today. So happy to have
Nevine Nass 01:08 you. Thank you.
Sandra Rivas, 01:10 Thank you.
Nicole Donnelly 01:12 Yeah, I was so like,
Nevine Nass 01:15 such a good energy.
Nicole Donnelly 01:17 Oh, man. Yeah, that's one thing that I don't lack. You can just ask my husband, sometimes he's like, Nicole, can you just tone it down? Just a little bit? I don't know how to do that. So. But yeah, but like, I would love to just learn a little bit more about you, Sandra, and have you share with our audience, just a little bit about yourself. And I want to start with my little icebreaker question. I asked this to Nevine in one of our first shows when she came on. She probably remember it. Maybe she won't. Or maybe it was she'll know the question. I think when I say if, if you could be an animal, what would be your spirit animal?
Sandra Rivas, 01:52 Oh, that's easy. Definitely. Some type of bird probably like an eagle and things like that. Yeah, just the ability to fly and just answer ever is amazing.
Nicole Donnelly 02:02 The ability to fly and go wherever you want. Yeah, yes. I love it. I remember what
Nevine Nass 02:09 it says a lot about her because she's covering a lot of ground in your burgers. And that's her. You cover a lot of ground? Yep. Good answer. Good answer.
Nicole Donnelly 02:20 That's amazing. Nevine can back it up. Yep. It reminds me when I was in the Pacific Northwest, and they have bald eagles all over the place there. And they're just like, perched on the top of these trees. And they're like the kings. Like, literally, they're just perched way up high, just looking over scoping it all out. And it's just, it's just amazing to see them when they fly. So absolutely, yeah. He finds Sandra the eagle.
Sandra Rivas, 02:41 I love it. Thanks. That's the plan.
Nicole Donnelly 02:44 So I'd love to learn a little bit more about how you got into the wellness industry, what inspired you, you have a very long history of wellness going back to your college days, you know, it looks like you studied exercise science when you were in college. So what inspired you as a younger girl to want to go into this industry? And how has your journey evolved over time?
Sandra Rivas, 03:05 Absolutely. So my background, like you mentioned is in clinical exercise physiology. And I started my goal, my sort of my career because my goal initially was to pursue a career in cardiac rehab. And I actually did an internship, I loved it, it was an amazing experience working at the hospital and meeting patients. But you know, I realized, as I was doing it, that I was only meeting a really small portion of the people that have had cardiac events. Because unfortunately, you know, there are some people who don't have that second chance to go on and tried to better their lives through behavioral changes. So, you know, I saw the patients that I was working with not only receive the cardiac rehab prescriptions, but also get nutrition education and get stress management tips. And, you know, thinking to myself, this would be amazing if they had received all of this education, before they actually got to the stage where they had a heart attack, or they had some other type of cardiac issue and are trying to improve. So you know, where where can I work that would be able to get that message across. And considering that a lot of it is behavioral, how can I educate people. So, you know, thinking that we spend a big chunk of our waking hours at work, I figured workplace wellness is really a great place to do this. Employers have a captive audience, they're able to really spend the spend the time with their employees to make sure that they're getting healthier. And so that's really what drew me they're
Nicole Donnelly 04:31 amazing, I love it, and how important it is to address those challenges before they become challenges, right. And educating those young the younger generations at a very young age so that they can develop those healthy habits really just helps them to live a much more full life long term, but also for the employers to to have just a really healthy workforce to that's just thriving. So that's awesome. Very cool. So we're going to be talking a little bit about the multi generational workforce that we live in today. We've got Baby Boomers, Gen Xers millennials, and Gen, you know, Gen Zers. Now coming up, it's hard to believe as a millennial that there's the Gen Z beyond me, honestly, I still like to feel like 22 years old and just started my career, but that's not. Right. So there's so many different needs. And I think like, we think about the baby boomers, for example, who grew up before the digital age, really, before cell phones and have had to adopt technology. They're, you know, completely, you know, digital natives is that the digital natives, I believe, but anyway, all the way down to the Gen Z ers who are just like they live on their cell phones. So the way that these generations like to communicate the way they like to receive information really varies in the workforce. So let's talk a little bit about that. I'd love to just hear from you about this, this this trend, like what are the common barriers that you see, when it comes to addressing these challenges when it comes to wellness?
Sandra Rivas, 06:02 Well, there's definitely going to be a variety of them. And I would say one of the big things, you know, as as much as we tend to kind of group our generations into different boxes, you know, if we are adhering to stereotypes, that can also kind of put us in a little bit of a bind, too, because we have to realize that everybody is still an individual that yes, they may share some common experiences with people in their generation. But at the end of the day, we're going to really have to kind of get to know that person to figure out what in their background, whether socioeconomic, geographic, cultural, all of that is really making them tick, and really making them make the choices that they currently are and how we can improve that. But I would say that a big thing, you know, definitely not having a lot of data. So not really getting to know the employees know what those issues are, is going to definitely set people back and then not having clear goals based on that data, that's also going to be detrimental. So once you have those goals, when you have that data, then it's really just a matter of how do we reach all of these individuals? Yes, and consider them as a generation and that their preferred method of communication, but also ultimately, how are they as individuals going to want to receive that information?
Nicole Donnelly 07:20 So, so important, and I'm sure it's right runs the gamut. Nevine, I'd love to have you chime in I know you've worked with Sandra for quite a while. Maybe you can share a little bit about your experience working with Sandra and how you guys have partnered together to support wellness for employers and specially addressing the needs of multigenerational workforce?
Nevine Nass 07:43 Yeah, well, you know, I think that with in the workforce, really wellness wasn't prevalent until, like the 70s. And when I got involved in that, in 96, I mean, there was a good 10 years that went by before we even were even, you know, you know, started dressing the individual and their accountability to the process, you know, and so, you know, for 10 years, we'd go out, we do the screening, they'd see us every year, but there was really no change, there was no accountability. But then in 2006, there was a federal regulation, which authorized the continuing wellness programs, offering incentives, which is what Humana is really huge on and but it's to achieve the biometrics outcomes such as BMI and cholesterol. And then that is when we, I think, really, like we were able to engage with them before we were providing something to them, and they would leave, but they were had us they had skin in the game. So they would then be engaging with us. And we all had a plan. And it was, you know, creating a baseline with the biometrics, but they knew that it was on them to make that change. So, you know, I think that, you know, programs have evolved over time, they're going to continue evolving. I mean, what we're doing today is still is irrelevant. But, you know, initially, the primary goal was to manage cost and mitigate risk. And even though now we have the main focus is to have a healthy workforce, we're ending up with the same goal of managing costs and mitigating risks. So but it's really everyone has, you know, you know, a say in it, then the individual interacting with them, and then their accountability is huge. So, yeah, I
Nicole Donnelly 09:17 love I love what you said there because, you know, it's so important that they get the awareness of what their risks are, through those biometric screenings, you know, that is the first step right? They've got to be aware, but that I think that what you shared is just that's not enough. There needs to be some engagement, some ongoing interventions to be able to help support them in that journey, so that they're going to make those healthy changes and it's going to happen intrinsically, with it, you know, something that they're going to want to do. And so I think that's really cool. How you know, together, you and Sandra have been able to create this really great partnership over the years where you can come and provide the awareness and then Sandra, Sandra and her team can help support the ongoing engagement of the employees and the initiative Yeah, absolutely.
Sandra Rivas, 10:00 Yeah. And I think that the partnership with Nevine, you know, aside from that initial, just awareness of where they fall on, you know, with their health and what risks they may encounter in the future, it's a really good first step to helping people become just more savvy healthcare consumers. If you think about it, you know, most people before they go out and buy anything, you know, be in a car, be a TV, they do research, they go and see, you know, where's the best deal going to be where you know, what's the best option for me and for my family, and they're just don't go into it blindly. Whereas we really have not had that approach with healthcare in the past. And a lot of it has to do with how healthcare has been, has really been executed in the past. But moving forward, you know, really, we want to encourage that and have people be part of that conversation. And like Nevine said, and really just be accountable for it. So maybe they're hearing risk mitigation. And they're only seeing it as an advantage to their employer, when in reality, it's going to impact them too, because we've never seen health care costs go down, right on an annual basis are going higher, and higher and higher, people are paying more out of pocket. And so if they are able to really attenuate those risks, before they're too big, they're going to impact their own pocket as well. And just be healthier and happier overall.
Nicole Donnelly 11:21 That is such a great point, because I have to tell you, on the employee side of things, I've heard friends who are part of wellness programs, and they don't see that side of it, right, they're just seeing the side of it as Oh, this is just so that my employer doesn't have to pay as much of a premium. But you're absolutely right, that it does impact their their costs do. And it's important for the employees to recognize that it is like a big joint effort and trying to you know, it takes takes takes a lot of effort on all sides. Right? So, yes, very good. Awesome. I love that. So I would love to learn a little bit more. Nevine, if you could share a little bit what have you noticed when it comes to wellness trends, how they have evolved over the years for different age groups? Have you noticed some challenges differences when it comes to wellness?
Nevine Nass 12:08 Knew When I Was Yeah, yeah, the topic, I was like, redefine like, what generation like, what how we get on blind next generation ages when buying health, as we age focusing on, you know, life prevention, holistic well being, whereas, you know, the riches at there, they're the most stressed and time generation, they're juggling multiple roles, the home in the office, and you know, with younger generation 35, which is where I see myself when everything capelli Well, that's age I feel inside. So but they're most you know, the most well, well conscious, right? But they're their model is just in tech savvy generation, they're a problem in a time of rapid change, innovation, their their health, their health is more of a lifestyle choice. How many vegans have a Thanksgiving, if they're making space, that's not really a goal from an activity, but you're also looking for wellness opportunities that can offer them fun. In relation, you know, they grew class festivals, I mean shop. Shoppers generation, they're treading water, you know, they're interested in programs that are going to pay for flexibility, you know, convenience, affordability, they're more willing to do the online apps, the you know, the the online platforms, the wearable devices, we you know, they're also seeking, you know, wellness experiences that will create opportunity to relax, and rejuvenate and really see their daily lives. And so with my generation we're posting, we've got it all figured out. I mean, no, we don't. But you know, I think that I think we're looking more with for more ways to stay active, you know, engaged, relevant, socially connected, you know, presumably, like maybe volunteering, continuing education, higher education, in my case, traveling, I mean, this is the first time that I've been able to go, hey, yeah, we do ski trips, and all that with the family and stuff, but it's the first time I've been able to look up and go, What do I want to do what I'm at a point in my life, and I'm looking at retirement in 65 at 65 and, or maybe before them, but I really want to take this opportunity now to really set what my future is going to look like. And really, I think, you know, the older generation is really focused on that and for me, it's it's travel. So I think that we you know, just really have to understand, like Sandra said, understand each each of each every generation, but also listen to them, you know, the needs assessment, I said this before needs assessment, figuring out what it is their needs are but really Put it in putting it into action, because they're not really going to feel you're seeing or speaks to them. So
Nicole Donnelly 15:10 I love that. Naveen. Sandra, is there anything that you wanted to add there? When it comes to kind of some of the unique needs of? Yes.
Sandra Rivas, 15:21 He did a really good job, I think, touching on some of those differences. And the one thing that, you know, I will want to say is that, regardless each senator, regardless of each of the needs of the generations, because they're going to have different ways of wanting to receive communication and different goals, depending on what their stage in life is. And we need to keep that in mind as we're putting together a wellness program. You know, if we think about our own personal lives and how our own wellness journeys evolve from, you know, when you're younger, financial security means one thing and when you're older, it means another. Initially, it may be, you know, maybe it's funding for school or tuition reimbursement, or it's just getting an emergency savings going. And then as you're nearing retirement, your focus is making sure that you're ready for retirement. So how it's going to be just a broad spectrum, depending on what those generations are. But Naveen, you did touch on a common thread that I think that all the generations have. And that's that need for connection. So making sure that we're finding a way to keep everyone connected, is going to be a huge way of making sure that we're hitting all of those, the main the main needs for each of our generations, and leading to a successful wellness program.
Nicole Donnelly 16:33 I love what you said there about connection, Sandra, I think that's a really good and very important point. And it ties into this whole idea of communication, you know how these different generations prefer to communicate can really you have to know and understand how they like to communicate what the preferences are, and what the challenges are there so that you can address those because if the employees aren't getting the information adequately, that can lead to problems, I was just reading a statistic that when employees feel they've received adequate information, they're nearly three times likely three times less likely to feel burned out, and nearly two times as likely to feel engaged in their work. And that's purely communication that comes all down to just, you know, feeling like they've received adequate information. So that I think that ties really well into wellness is how can you as an employer, really, as Nevine mentioned, do a really great needs assessment upfront before you even start a wellness initiative wellness program, like is the first step doing that needs assessment in marketing, we call it a customer needs assessment to it's like critical, you got to know what their problems are, and pain points are and using that leveraging that to understand their communication preferences. So you Hi, Nevine. We missed you. I know, I know, you're having a little bit of a, you gotta love technology, right? There's always there's always something there's always something especially when you go live or work doesn't make it work on the fly. We were just talking to been about just the communication challenges and how to address those by understanding what they are when you do that initial needs assessment. So that when you're building out your wellness program, you can address them. So is there anything that you wanted to add there Sandra, about communication?
Sandra Rivas, 18:18 I, you know, I was not familiar with that staff. But I can absolutely see that in practice on a daily basis. We have many employees who reach out saying, you know, I did not know this was available. And this would have made such a huge difference. And a lot of it is how these things are being communicated to them or not, you know, not being communicated to them. So it may take a few times for someone to see a message because perhaps it was emailed to them originally, but they don't really check their email or they're not checking their personal email, maybe they're only checking their work, email. These are all things that you have to account for when you're putting together a communication plan to your employees and figuring out what's the best way for some it may be digital, for some it may be in person still. Or it could be something as simple as a flyer. These are all different things that have to be accounted for.
Nicole Donnelly 19:08 Yeah, absolutely. I love what you said there. And it's really about meeting them where they are so that they can engage, right rather than expecting them to come here. Like if you're, for example, with a biometric screening event, you know, giving them options. So maybe if you have a really large remote workforce, doing an on site screening is not going to make sense. Or maybe you do both and you have on site screenings, but you also offer the option for them to go you know off site or do a home test kit option. So it's really being able to understand, you know what, you know how you can reach them so that they're not having to, you know, as much as possible, you're meeting them where they are and that directly. Naveen, you're back, we missed you.
Nevine Nass 19:46 Back, you know, so I take it I take it back, take it back. I don't want to be part of the generation that's tech savvy, because all I did was touch my earpiece. It would shut me down. I got these beats. I'm like I'm irrelevant. I have beats but I don't on how to use them. The older generation technically officially was gone, Sandra. Yeah, she touched on everything, because we're really I think we're she and I are really in lockstep with what we believe on this the generational, you know, you know, baselines and creating programs, and really listening and implementing programs. So I'm excited that thank you. So continue.
Nicole Donnelly 20:24 Yeah, well, I would just love to hear Sandra, if you have maybe an example of a client you've worked with, that has really done a great job of addressing these multigenerational challenges in a good way. Like, what did that what did they How did they set up their wellness program? Or maybe what do you recommend? Maybe if you could walk us through and tell us a story of where you've seen this really implemented? Well, in practice?
Sandra Rivas, 20:45 Yeah, absolutely. I can tell you, I've worked with hundreds of employers who have either attempted or have successfully implemented wellness programs, and there's been varying degrees of, of those outcomes. And some of the common threads that I've seen with them, there's probably three main things that I usually would say are going to be key factors, and the first is going to be leadership buy in, because we all know that, that sets the tone for everything in the culture in a workforce and in a workplace. And so if you don't have a leadership that's bought in, then unfortunately, you're not really going to see that go down, you know, go down the ladder, to where everyone else is going to be bought into this as well. So you know, a lot of is going to be how am I communicating to the executives or the senior leaders in my organization, to really get them to understand the importance of having a wellness program, or really just kind of shifting the focus of the of the of the organizational culture towards being more wellness oriented. The second thing that I would say, really makes people successful is going to be having wellness champions, or some type of committee, you know, everyone needs cheerleaders to make sure that it's successful, you can get the program going and get it started. But if you don't have somebody out there, that's telling their peers, this program is awesome, you know, not only am I getting healthier, I'm getting more steps, or my cholesterol has gone down. But there's incentives involved, I've gotten gift cards or you know, it's just been really great a great experience for me, you should give it a try, if you haven't already. And with that, that is a huge component of being successful. And then having some type of committee or or those champions getting together and sharing feedback on a regular basis of what they're hearing from their peers, you know, maybe, you know, we've found out from a lot of people that wellness programs are not necessarily accepted, not just because people aren't familiar with them or the communications, but they're a little wary of the fact that their employer wants them to be healthier. But if we can get past that communication barrier and explain to them that there are benefits involved, then that's going to be huge, and a real really critical piece of having a successful program. And then the last and most important is having a clear direction, you know, you would never just kind of set off in your car or wherever, not really knowing where you're going or having a destination in mind. And it's going to be the same thing. When you're creating a program, you have to have a clear goal. It's not enough to just put together you know, let's let's do a weight loss program for the holidays, or let's all get together and do a step challenge. Those things are great, by all means it's a great way to develop camaraderie. But if there isn't an end goal in mind, then there really isn't a purpose to doing those things. And so that's going to be the main thing.
Nicole Donnelly 23:40 I love that so important to set a goal so that you know what you're measuring against. I think what you mentioned about wellness champions is so huge, because I love what you said about, you know, people can be a little bit wary about participating in a wellness program at first. But if they see their peers doing it, and they see that their peers and their friends are engaged in it, that is going to be an easier way for them to get excited and bought into it rather than feeling like it's coming from way up here. But you know, if you have people on your team that are go ahead and have been
Nevine Nass 24:09 Yeah. And you know, it seems standard to your point. And also then because you nailed it as well. What stuck out to me was the wellness champions. We I've even gone as far as to like recommend going, Hey, listen, you're the wellness champion, but you need people that are championing what you're doing. And so it's like, hey, the first 10% that sign up for the biometrics, they're gonna get a blah, blah, blah, it's first of all, it's them, you know, they have credibility with their, you know, they're helping the champion, but they're also being like, Oh, let me get Am I the first 10% I don't know if I would say don't do the first Hey, first five, the sign up, they're like, Oh, I'm not gonna get it, but they don't know what percentage she said, Okay, for the first 10% of people that sign up, you're gonna get a $5 subway card and then they're gonna be the ones that are working for you. So it's work smart, you know, not you know, so it's a, you know, getting bonus champions from minions under you to kind of implement what you're trying to achieve because you got to keep your eye on the ball. You really do need help. And people, you have the same people, every time we go out, that are signing up there and getting engaged you want, you want to activate them, you want to activate the cell and get them excited in their own cubicles to be talking about, hey, this is what I did. This is what I'm doing. And just really kind of having, you know, a wellness workforce. So right, good points. Good points.
Sandra Rivas, 25:22 Yeah, and I know, you definitely nailed it with there needing help, because we've realized that HR teams have so many things on their plate. And usually wellness just kind of falls on their plate in addition to everything else. And when you're looking at the hierarchy of the things that they need to get through. A lot of times, it's not there, because they have way more pressing issues, you know, benefits is not the end all as much as I would love to think that it's really important, because that's the world we're in. We've got a lot of other things that are competing priorities. And so having that additional help really helps alleviate that burden. And just having people come together, you know, like minded individuals, sharing feedback, coming up with ideas, and really great ways to reach their employees, or reach their peers. That's that's going to be huge, definitely makes a big difference.
Nevine Nass 26:14 I agree. I agree. I love that. I
Nicole Donnelly 26:16 love what you said to Nevine about like I who do how do I, if I'm an employer, how do I know who's gonna be a good wellness champion? Right, who's gonna be a great person that I that I can task or do this. And what I heard from you, Nevine, is to identify those folks that are already really engaged and excited about wellness and participate. Do you guys have any other suggestions? You know, a lot of our audience are manufacturers. And for manufacturers? Do you have any suggestions? For example, for those folks who are building out their wellness program in terms of how do they get that leadership buy in? And how do they identify their wellness champions internally?
Nevine Nass 26:48 Yeah, you know, I think I touched on this before, I think in another podcast, maybe but it's, you know, in Sandra just nailed it as well. It's almost like she's in my head. It's, it's it? Yeah, it's sending out a needs assessment. And in what she said about having, you know, from top tier down approval to get, like I said, to get flexible with schedules, because you've got people that are on the line, you can't leave their scheduled shifts changes. I mean, it's a 24 hour shift sometimes. And are we going to is the shift going to cover when we're there. So it's really, you know, having the upper management allowing you to get creative and invent also implementing it. Because if you can get, you're gonna have all the plans in the world. But if you don't have the implementation power, we're just spinning our wheels. So I think that you kind of nailed it, Sandra.
Nicole Donnelly 27:34 Very good. We've got we've got a few folks in the audience. We've got Yama let Ramirez I hope I said her name right, right here. And we also have Sanjay, who says Bravo, and best wishes to all thank you for being here today, Sanjay, we appreciate you. This is such an awesome conversation. So let's keep going. Let's talk more about let's see, with the rise of remote work that we're seeing, especially post pandemic, and I know, there's been some shifts almost back, like, it's so interesting. Like during COVID, there was, of course, this massive shift to remote work. And then after COVID, a lot of employers are now kind of like, well, there's definitely some downsides to remote work. So a lot of employers are saying, let's go back to the office, because there's some challenges there, too. Yeah. But what do you see? What are you guys seeing on the wellness side, with wellness trends that are adapting to, you know, this remote work phenomenon, and how they're addressing those challenges for like the younger tech savvy employees versus older generations, who may be used to working remotely and all the technology that's involved.
Sandra Rivas, 28:41 You know, I've seen a lot of employers really handle this challenge with with grace and just, it's been amazing. As I'm seeing some of the trends out there. I've seen a lot of their benefits offerings, that they're putting together really doing a good job of encompassing the whole spectrum of things that would target Gen Z, all the way to their boomers or I mean, even traditionalist because there are still some silent genders out there that are in the workforce. And so making sure that they're catering to everybody in there. And one of the things that I have to say, I'm really excited about that, I think has been such an amazing trend is employers offering a wellness stipend, because in the past, you know, we saw things like gym memberships being offered or you know, catered lunches or things like that. But some of those things only work for people on site. And then some of the things are very specific to a certain demographic or a need of a particular individual. But if you're just offering a very general wellness stipend, you're giving an employer an employee X amount of dollars to spend on a monthly basis for their wellness. That's huge because they can really choose how they're going to personalize that stipends. Some people may still opt for paying for a gym membership, then you've got others who are going to pay for maybe that can go towards It's massage therapy, or it can go towards some type of hobby or activity that really makes them feel better about themselves. So I'm excited about that trends, I would love to see employers adopting things of that nature where it's more flexible for their employees, because I think that's going to be the key moving forward is just flexibility in general in not only just your benefit offerings, but every the way that you're putting together your approach to communication, like we've mentioned before, that's that's going to be I think, the buzzword for the coming years.
Nicole Donnelly 30:33 I love that. So any employers out there if you're a leader in HR at a manufacturing company, this is I think, such an amazing point, Sandra that you've made is making sure that you're baking flexibility into your wellness program, so that you can address those multigenerational needs, and really meet those employees where they are. Because we know that as time goes on, that things are going to just get more complex with the way that we're working how we're working hybrid workplace, you know, we're you know, people are Hotelling to their office. And there's going to be so many more I think complexities and how we work in the future as we look forward, that really thinking about how you can make it flexible rather than this fixed. Offering that that can be limiting I think is huge, is a very huge point. And we have a we have a comment from Yamaha Ramirez, she says onsite wellness clinics is becoming more popular, easier access and more in person access to the medical professionals. I love that Sandra, what do you think about that? What's your, what's your response to this comment?
Sandra Rivas, 31:30 I agree. And thank you, yeah, MILLETTE, for sharing that, that is absolutely the case, we are seeing that happen. And that's a great way to really make sure that you're hitting the health needs of all your generations. And just particularly important because of the fact that each of them has a different relationship with healthcare. And so traditionally, we see boomers being very open and having a usually a pretty good relationship with a primary care provider, many of them have been going to the same doctor for years, and they're just very comfortable going to that doctor for a lot of their needs. But then you have Gen X who is a little more skeptical, and they're going out there, again, their time is limited. So they're trying to make the most of that, and visiting providers that are going to be convenient for them. And then a trend that we're seeing with millennials and Gen Z ers is that they're a little bit there. They're not alone, but they're much more skeptical of traditional health care. And so they're more likely to do things that are going to be convenient to them that are going to be digital that you know that they don't necessarily put as much of an emphasis on having that relationship with a particular provider so much as having easy access to care, and being able to get it at their fingertips. So if they're doing that on site at a workplace. That's a great way to really speak to multiple generations at once. And then I'm seeing that Emily is also talking about mental health alternatives and motivational speakers. Absolutely. All of those are a huge part of it. We're seeing, you know, really just more of a holistic approach to wellness offerings in general.
Nicole Donnelly 33:08 I love that. Naveen, what do you think? What do
Nevine Nass 33:10 you Yeah, no, I yeah, I think to your point, you know, this, it's not it's not just about physical health anymore. It's about mental, emotional, spiritual, social, I mean, similar to like, in again, biometrics, because that's my world. But similar to like with biometrics, all the numbers come together. But if you can shift the BMI, you can't do anything about your height, you can do something about your weight, but when you do that weight, when it shifts, all the other numbers kind of are affected. And so you really just only have to move the needle one way. So when we're talking about the, you know, being social, I think social, being social really helps with your mental state, your emotional state, your spiritual state, because you're engaged with your community. And I think that, you know, again, it's not, it's not a one stop shop. It's not, you know, there's not a one size fits all to your point. So it just, I think that you nailed that.
Nicole Donnelly 34:02 Yeah, we know that mental health is continues to be a growing challenge for all generations going forward. So I love that. We've got another comment from Christopher Alvie. Hi, Christopher, welcome to the show. He says telemedicine has also been a hot trend for providing access to acute and behavioral health care. What do you guys think about telemedicine? I know, that became huge during COVID huge acceleration adoption there. Are you seeing that that's continuing to accelerate as an option that employers are offering as a service? What are you seeing trends there that that you think are important for us to be thinking about? Absolutely,
Sandra Rivas, 34:38 yeah, those are those are definitely we're starting to see those trends as well. There was a real increase obviously during COVID With everything being locked down, it was just much easier. So I think that kind of help accelerate that the utilization utilization of telemedicine. Then we saw a little bit of a drop after COVID. After the lockdowns people started going back to their traditional methods of seeking out health care. But, you know, we've been seeing a steady increase as well. And there's lots of offerings. So, for example, at Humana, we've been doing things like telemedicine with behavioral and physical health care for quite some time. But even in the past year, we've actually implemented tele dentistry, which is really exciting. So dental one way, or they know that, yeah, it's really it's a really great service for people who may have an you know, urgent need for care, you know, maybe it's the middle of the night, all of a sudden, they've got a toothache, they don't know why it's happening. And rather than watch to an ER, they can actually consult with a virtual dentist, that dentists can tell them whether they do need to go to an ER or if they can wait to see their dentist, they can prescribe them with medication. So there's lots of different trends we're seeing mental health, as a big service are a big part of those services as well. When it comes to telemedicine, I think that people have been more or more comfortable opening up to somebody when they're, they've got that, that protection of having that screen in between them. So that's just a big benefit as well. Other telemedicine services.
Nicole Donnelly 36:11 I love that sorry, we're seeing that there's kind of like more interest from employees for like talk therapy, digital talk therapy, where they can speak with someone through an app kind of situation, like what are you seeing there when it comes to utilization of some of those services?
Sandra Rivas, 36:25 Absolutely, yeah, we're definitely seeing more and more in the industry that people are utilizing. And we're starting to see an increase of those providers available to so if you look, you know, I'm sure if you want you to where you are, if you're on Instagram or any other social media, you'll see a lot of ads for different mental health providers out there that are that are moving digitally. And it's as simple as having an app, you know, in your in your phone that you can access whenever you may feel a need. Or you can have recurring appointments set up. And for people who are already too, so connected to their phones and their computers, that just makes it so much easier to be able to hop on really quick and speak to somebody when they really have that need.
Nicole Donnelly 37:08 I love that. And are you seeing any other new kind of up and coming trends when it comes to how to address mental health? For the workforce that you think are like kind of just like cutting edge that you see increasing over the next 510 years in terms of adoption and utilization?
Sandra Rivas, 37:24 Yeah, well, one thing that I will say that's really interesting about the way the mental health trends are moving Are we all as a generation are different in different generations have different needs, yes, but at the end of the day, we have a common thread. And that's just how we feel wellness. And wellness really, to each generation may change. But at the end of the day, when our goals like well, we the picture of what we have in our head actually aligns with what our reality is, I mean, that's going to determine wellness. So finding, finding the services.
Nicole Donnelly 38:01 About one more time I got to stop that was brilliant. A picture of what is in your head.
Sandra Rivas, 38:08 Yeah. So whatever you're picturing in terms of wellness and your goals, once that aligns with what your reality is, then that's what determines your your well being your will your style. Well, your wellness status is currently
Nevine Nass 38:22 well said Well said,
Nicole Donnelly 38:24 Oh, brilliant,
Nevine Nass 38:26
inspired, you've inspired Nicole, she's like
Nicole Donnelly 38:32 what a great well measure your well being like for any individual to just say How well am I you know, how do I feel like my well being is, is, you know, the image I have matching up with the reality of my life. That is so cool. So I just had to stop that. That was
Sandra Rivas, 38:49 oh, no, no, that's alright. You know, I think that that's, that's huge for a lot of people is, you know, maybe they've never really taken inventory of that before. And you know where they are. And so figuring out well, what's missing to get there. And, again, this kind of ties back to that needs assessment that Nevine and you have mentioned, but employers also need to do some digging to figure out what those needs are for their workforce. And, you know, just as important is for them to also figure out what their business goals are, and then find someplace in the middle find that overlap, making sure that yes, you are following through with the surveys because it's in the means point. I think it's maddening for employees to get all these constant surveys and then not see any follow through because it doesn't make them feel valued or heard. But if you are following up and providing something that actually aligns with what their needs are, then that goes a long way to making sure that you're addressing that mental health aspect of well being.
Nevine Nass 39:52 You know, I think also, I think also with the mental health thing, like you know, we're us as Americans, we're like if I achieve this I'm going to Be happy. It's really also stressing the importance of like, You're not always going to be happy and to realize that you're going to be floating back and forth, in and out of like, because you're always evolving. And so to really not be hard on yourself, when you are like, Okay, I've achieved myself and maybe I'm not as happy as I thought it would be. But it's just understand it's not a one and done. You're going to, you're going to back you're going to fall back, you're gonna get back up. It's a it's a dance you're doing with yourself and just, again to the Met for your mental health. Don't Don't tell yourself something that's not sure.
Sandra Rivas, 40:31 Right. Yeah, that's that's a huge point. And I mean, that's a big benefit of having mental health resources. Because if you have a provider that can help you reframe those thoughts to where they're more in line with, you know what it is that you're hoping for, that goes a long way to being healthier. So that's a that's a great movie. Yeah, movie that is
Nicole Donnelly 40:49 like grittiness what you just said, right there really? I see that in you like grittiness to the nth degree, you know, how the cabinet company over 20? Okay, I know, I know, you feel about the words of affirmation.
Nevine Nass 41:03 Yeah, I'm not. I'm not a words of affirmation girl.
Nicole Donnelly 41:09 A great way to promote grittiness, which we all know that the grittier people are, the more resilient, they're going to be the more happy and healthy that they're going to be in their day to day lives. There's one question I have, though, about, like, I love what you said about the needs assessment and how it can be frustrating for employees when the you know, the employers aren't really addressing those needs. And I think that speaks to probably a little bit of the overwhelm maybe that HR professionals are experiencing, especially during post COVID. That I don't like and I would love to know, if you feel like that's kind of gone back to pre COVID. Normal. Are you seeing like that there's still the significant sense of overwhelm of burden that these HR teams are having to carry with dealing with like the complexities of health care and wellness and all that, like, what are you seeing there in terms of their workloads and burnout? And how to manage all of these complexities?
Sandra Rivas, 42:03 Yeah, well, well, I can't speak specifically to what these HR teams may be experiencing day to day, I can tell you, from my perspective, what I'm seeing with a lot of them is perhaps that feeling of overwhelm, and a lot of it due to still being short on staff, or a lot of things have fallen into their lap that weren't an issue before. So we're seeing a lot of mental health issues in the workforce are now having to deal with hybrid workplaces. And all of that can definitely add to that burnout that they're feeling. But yeah, I couldn't tell you if this is, I'm sure that they have had all a lot of these things on their plate prior to COVID. But I can just imagine, like everyone else, they have seen an exacerbation in the types of experiences that they're having on a regular basis, because of the realities of living in that post pandemic world.
Nevine Nass 42:56 Yeah, I think COVID really put a magnifying glass on it. And, you know, even before then, you know, their job was the hardest job and you know, at MSU, our job is to make their job easier, and to make them look good. Honestly, that's that's the kind of it's part of our mantra. And so, really helping them to, you know, just kind of pull back redirect, but also just to be there and support them in any way we can. It's it's challenging, though. Their job is it's a hard job being HR and HR. It's hard. So give me give them on credit.
Nicole Donnelly 43:28 Yeah, absolutely. But I think you made a great point. Nevine, is for those HR teams out there that are struggling with overwhelm how important it is to find great partners like MSU, great wellness partners that can really be like your arm and your support. For that you can really handle a lot of those complexities because they wear a lot of hats. So let's have other folks who are experts in what they do, like Nevine and her team, they're experts in biometric screening, delivery and in the data, you know, after the fact that that data, lean on them as much as possible and pass those hats on to those folks and to folks like Sandra, who can really help support, you know, the delivery of some of these ancillary wellness services so that, you know, reduce some of the overwhelm. Cool. Awesome. You guys. This is fun.
Sandra Rivas, 44:14 Are you having fun? Absolutely. Yeah. You know, I actually can can very easily talk about this all day I love so it's, you know, it's good thing. We've got a window, otherwise, you can't stop me.
Nevine Nass 44:31 Yeah, I will tell you to add on to the support, like, you know, you know, being there and supporting the HR. I have to tell you, I have a lot of great clients throughout the whole spectrum. I have to tell you that Sandra is the one that whenever I called she always picked up the phone. Always. I always felt like I didn't have to put it off. I always felt like I didn't have to like, Okay, I'll do that later. She always either picked up the phone or immediately responded with an answer or, Hey, I don't know where I'll get back to so I was she, she supports me, I support them. It's really just, uh, you know, we're all under the same umbrella. So we're all trying to achieve the same goal. So I want to thank you, Sandra for all your years, and our relationship and our partnership and all of your support throughout all this time. Thank you, thank you and have you in my life. She's my little plant friend, we do plan shopping. Well, and I think
Nicole Donnelly 45:27 to this from our conversation, Sandra, your passion for wellness and your deep expertise just really shines through. And I think that's so important, because it's such a need right now. So many people are struggling with mental health challenges with, you know, living well, and there's just such a need, there's such a gap. So having folks like you that can really provide that high level of support and direction, and really kind of champion and help educate employers on what's working, and what's going to be effective for them and for their employees is so important. There's a really great testimonial that I was when I was reading your LinkedIn profile from a gentleman Jack Speier, and he said, I cannot recommend Sandra highly enough. She is extremely knowledgeable in the wellness engagement arena. She's an excellent manager, and she puts her heart into her job. She has strong customer relationship skills as well, I would definitely hire her if I had this type of position available. She's a delight to work with and have on the team. So I wanted to take a moment and share that testimonial. Yeah, and it totally seconds everything and supports everything that we just said to just about the wonderful work that you're doing and the service that you're providing to your clients. So bravo. Thank you. Yeah, very nice. Well, let's talk about the future of wellness. Let's let's talk about how you see wellness programs evolving, especially with Gen Z coming up, right, we're definitely seeing, of course, this multi generational workforce, you know, the boomers are booming. They're booming into retirement, and we've got Gen Z coming up. So how do you see the wellness programs evolving in the next five to 10 years? We talked about flexibility, what are some other things that you're seeing?
Sandra Rivas, 47:14
Well, I'm really excited about Gen Z, I have to say, you know, every day I get more and more excited about them, because of the fact that they're just they have this energy about them, you know, that they're, they're not letting anyone get in their way, and they are going to change. So I'm really, really excited to see what you have in store. You know, I will say that one thing that I think they have made abundantly clear so far is that work life balance is a priority for them. And so it's not just about money, you know, salaries great, but at the end of the day, if they're going to be getting paid a lot, but it's pulling them from the other important things in their life, it's just not going to be worth it to them. And so that's definitely notable in terms of when you're planning a wellness program. And then the other thing that I think is really interesting about them is traditionally we've had this compartmentalization of wellness. You know, we talk about financial wellness, we talk about emotional wellness, social, wellness, mental, mental, wellness, physical and so all of those things are one in the same to them, you know, wellness as wellness, if financial wellness is not good, their physical wellness isn't going to be good because some it's all interconnected. And so they're really doing
Nicole Donnelly 48:30
I'm sorry, I said they're so smart. They just get it they really
Sandra Rivas, 48:33
are they figure
Nevine Nass 48:33
it out, please, please do not say that. I have two Gen Z. Millennials but we do not know everything. You're not ready. You're not watching. That's right. Right. So hopefully, you guys here
Nicole Donnelly 48:50
we get smarter and smarter every generation All right. The things you know, now that I didn't know till I was 20 You know, it's exposure
Nevine Nass 48:58
it's exposure from an early age they've just been exposed to all this new to I mean, the technology innovation, they really are advanced so I do give my boys points. Yes, you you probably do more do certain things, but I still know a lot. But yeah, it's they this has been their life for their entire lives. When did when was internet like When did internet Come on? Beam lamer? Like we were like the screen coming up slowly? Yeah, don't ever
Nicole Donnelly 49:26
95 or something like that. I love what you said there Sandra about the fact that they're seeing wellness holistically. And so that's, you know, if as employers as you're thinking about your wellness program, you have to make sure it's all encompassing, because it needs to address all of those challenges in one hole rather than we're just going to do you know, biometric screenings once a year. Well, what else you What are you going to do with our knees other areas and how can you package it as rather than having separate quadrants it being all one combined? Yeah,
Sandra Rivas, 49:57
exactly. Employers definitely need you to step up as much as they're, they're expecting their employees to. And I will say that because of that, you know that getting doing away with that compartmentalization, even just traditional wellness programs, as we know it, even if they are holistically approached, I'm I'm not sure that that's going to be enough for the future, I think that it's really going to start being more of organizations having to have a whole cultural shift, where they're holistically approaching, or they're making their whole culture wellness oriented, as opposed to just having a standalone wellness program. So that means that it's going to take a shift in hiring practices and salary and benefits offerings in how you do promotions, and how you retain and keep your employees satisfied. All of that has to come into consideration. And I think that we're gonna probably see that start to happen. I'm already seeing some signs of it in the workplace. And I would imagine that it's just going to continue to just be more enhanced.
Nevine Nass 51:05
Yeah, I think that the groups would be remiss if they don't, I mean, yes, the Gen Z's is, you know, personalized, and all that. But I think that you're going to miss your mark, if you're, you're you're not inclusive, respecting the diversity of your groups and the needs, you know, what their preferences are, their expectations, each generation, culture background, I mean, this is they're the most inclusive generation thus far. And they're not going to stand for, you know, again, I'm going back on my pulpit a little bit here. But I think we really just need to not ignore what's really coming up, coming up for us, we need to, you know, take take heed of what they're saying. To us.
Nicole Donnelly 51:45
That's such a great point and how important diversity is for innovation. Right? I mean, so incredible. And so making sure that you are building a culture where that diversity that you know, inclusiveness is, is celebrated is so important for organization in order for you to to be a healthy culture and to innovate and you know, relevant in the future,
Nevine Nass 52:07
have an open mind. But do I always say adapt or die, adapt to that?
Nicole Donnelly 52:12
That is your mantra,
Nevine Nass 52:15
adapt or die? That's how I've survived. So 27 years, yeah, adapt or die. So but yeah, good point. Thanks. I too
Nicole Donnelly 52:23
often about Sandra, about this, what you were mentioning about how the wellness programs are going to instead of being like a standalone, it's going to be kind of like, incorporated into the whole culture of the organization. So do you see like a shift in incentive programs kind of going away? And how do you see like you mentioned hiring specifically. So how do you see employers hiring differently? With wellness in mind from a cultural perspective? That question makes sense. Yeah.
Sandra Rivas, 52:51
Yeah, I think I think what you're asking is really just kind of how are we making that transition from how it currently is now to kind of what this what I'm envisioning in the future? Right. So what I'm seeing really is just kind of being wellness being just a part of the conversation on a regular basis, as opposed to Okay, let's have a wellness meeting. Now. We talked about everything else. Now, let's talk about wellness. It's just, it's just going to be inherently woven into that, that fabric of that culture in the organization will need a meeting. Yes, exactly. Yeah, so I think that, you know, when we're when we're thinking about organizational health, wellness programs as a standalone, they're great. They're great for what we've had in the past and where we are now. But we need to move towards just overall healthy organizational culture, meaning that hiring practices maybe not necessarily changing who we're hiring, or maybe, you know, we're looking to see if someone does fit that culture in that organization, but more along the lines of are we hiring in a way that's, that's putting an additional mental burden on our candidates? You know, is this something that do we need to sit through 12 rounds of interviews? Do we need to, you know, like, these are the types of things that are all part, you know, should be considered. When you're thinking about organizational culture and organizational health, it's important to keep in mind that that starts from day one. And so for many of them, you know, before they even received the offer, the employee or the candidate's perception of that employer is going to be created. So keeping that in mind. That's, that's really what I met with, you know, something as something as simple as a hiring practice perhaps being influenced by a healthy organizational culture.
Nicole Donnelly 54:43
I love that that really clarifies and helps me understand it a little bit more so as leaders and you know, as a business owner, this is something that I you know, culture is so important to me, how can I create a culture of excepted diversity and really empathy truly putting myself in their shoes to understand what it is that they need, you know, what I'm asking of them there is reasonable and fair. And, you know, they're not working all hours of the day and night and on the weekends and all those things. And that starts with leadership. Exactly, yes, leader, because leaders are the ones who are setting that expectation for the teams.
Sandra Rivas, 55:17
Yeah. And leading by example, once you know, maybe that's important as well, because you can be saying one thing, and then doing some trials. So, you know, one thing I've always kept in mind is, if I'm telling my team to take time off and relax, I should be taking time off and relax as well. Because otherwise, they're not going to think it's okay to do that. They're gonna think that she's gonna look at me differently. If I ask for PTO, or if I'm telling them disconnect at night or on the weekends, then they shouldn't be seeing an email come in at 10 o'clock at night or, you know, 4am or, you know, anytime on Saturday and Sunday, because basically, I'm doing something completely opposite of what I'm telling them to do. And so making sure that all of those things really align and that you are doing your best to be a good leader that
Nevine Nass 56:05
you are sitting listener going okay, yeah, I told Jasmine not to work this weekend. But a three o'clock in the morning on Saturday. Yeah. It is, is it's hard.